Hanoi vs. Saigon

I haven't visited Hanoi for two years or more. In the meantime, I think I must've become totally Saigonized. On my recent trip, I found Hanoi pho, even at my old fave, to be limp, fuelmode food with not a shred of finesse. Bun cha, the Hanoi lunchtime staple is fine, fine stuff and it was topnotch at 23 Ta Hien street, but... and this might put the cat amongst the sparrows... I've had better in Saigon. In fact, this was the problem with pretty much everything I tried in Hanoi, I came to the same conclusion, I've had better in Saigon. Not the result I expected, but I fear, factually true.

Which got me thinking about Vietnamese folk I've known over the years. I've known quite a few Hanoians who moved to Saigon for work. More often than not, they grow to love Saigonese scoff. But, reverse that migratory process and I can't think of a single Saigonese I've met who grew to love Hanoian food. Not one. Hmmm?? Discuss.... Extra-value added link: Hanoi Vs. Saigon via gridskipper

Comments

[Larry]

Oh boy... You open a whole can of worms here, pieman!!! I did a little "poll" amongst friends and family members, and guess what? we also came to the same conclusion that original foods from Hanoi become Saigonized are better in Saigon. I'm going to put a flak jacket on, go ahead and fire away!!!
--Larry

[Tu Cong Van]

This is a really good Bun Cha that I always go for lunch/

[Sticky]

You bitch ;)

[Mr. No Star Where]

Smack down.

I will say that I have a good friend from Hanoi who visits Saigon frequently (Vietnamese), and he raves about the food in the South. Every single time he came down, the food was a hot topic.

When I went back to Hanoi earlier this year, I was prepared to be rather disappointed by the food but I found it actually quite nice. The Bun Cha, Dam, Pork with Sesame at Bia Hoi near A2, very good Bun with Tofu, and the ribs on Tran Hung Dao. Called it an expectations game. I kept them low.

Saigon, for all of its shortcomings compared to Hanoi, has waaaaaaay better food. That said, Sticky, I love yer site and you represent.

[pieman]

I wish I had had more time to sniff out ALL my old faves (chicken street is deceased, may her grimey tables and filthy alleyway rest in peace...), but no can one man do.

I posted this (obviously) to try and stir a bit of a debate, BUT if we ignorant, irresponsible, disrespectful, debauched tays can spot the difference, surely your average upstanding, moral role model Joe Nguyen would agree? Whether he be Hanoian or otherwise?

Maybe that's it, they can't? I was on the isle of Tiree (gorgeous hebridean island populated by inbreeds and rich incomers) a few years ago and I got talking to a hotelier and chef out there. While they would have LOVED to have done/tried to do amazing things with the ingredients available the market for sophistication and taste simply did not exist.

Hanoi, same same no different, no?

[pieman]

Oh and one very obvious anomaly here - bia hoi - Utter, total and complete pish in Saigon. Nectar in the north. Pourquoi?

[Mr. No Star Where]

Bia Hoi is terrible in the South. Only the big Pacifico's and some very ratty Bia Hoi's spread randomly throughout the city. Not like in Hanoi, where there seems to be a lil' Bia Hoi full of character on every block.

[helen]

i imagine some of this comes from the fact you've lived for so long in saigon so have had the time to hunt down and try a lot more places.. whereas on a brief visit to hanopi, you won't know about every nook and cranny, one of hwich might serve the best bun cha ever.

the other is population size. with a much larger population in saigon, there would be a lot more street vendors.. and this means greater chances of providing better food.

[Mr. No Star Where]

I'll let Pieman vouch for his own Hanoi experience but I spent over a year in Hanoi and nearly 2 in Saigon; yup, more in Saigon but enough in each to get a fair idea.

I think that Saigon's food is better for 3 primary reasons (though perhaps Helen's population thesis has some merit).

1. More fresh ingredients are used in Saigon. You nearly always get a plate of fresh greens. Chao Tom, Banh Xeo, Pho, Bun Thit Nuong, etc etc etc

2. Seafood. Hanoi simply doesn't have seafood like Saigon does... for obvious reasons I guess. It's a bit farther from the sea.

3. The use of a grill. Sure there are plenty of places to grab grilled food in Hanoi but it is a staple of so many foods in Saigon. To me, meats and seafoods that are grilled taste much better.

And I'll add a fourth... it's hotter year round in Saigon, allowing for more fresh ingredients; plus, in Hanoi, for Dec-March, you're trying to stay warm with Lau and Pho, which after awhile, get tiresome.

That said, I think Hanoi does some things very right... for some reason the tofu in Hanoi is much better, rather in Dau Hu Sot Ca Chua or Bun Dau Hu. As Pieman said, Bia Hoi is much better in Hanoi, as is their tea. Tea in Saigon sucks. Very weak. While my favorite food all around is in Saigon, my two favorite Vietnamese dishes of all time are in Hanoi - the Ribs restaurants on Tran Hung Dao and the Pork with Sesame Seed at a Bia Hoi in the Bach Khoa neighborhood. Also, I remember enjoying eel soup near West Lake very much.

[pieman]

But I lived in Hanoi for 4 years, wrote two guides to the city, one a food guide, so I'm not exactly a stranger...

[dztran]

Ah, but the escargots on the far shores of Ho Tay. I haven't seen the equivalent in Saigon yet.
Also, the Nom Ga Hoa Chuoi (chicken salad) at "Banh Tom Ho Tay" (the restaurant). The southern equivalent, goi ga, although good, doesn't quite make it.

[just little old me]

Oh man! this is a very deep rooted subject. Great topic for anthropologist/sociologist to dig for study. From all the debates I learned:
1. Saigon's foods have always been mostly better for the general consensus. Authenticity has no bearing on the taste of the subject.

2. Availabilities according to seasons. Saigon has only 2 seasons, but somehow they have more abundant of everythings.

3. 1954. That's right! mass exodus of Hanoians brough in the best stuff from their kitchen. And, they have had a long fruitful period of fusioning. The products you are enjoying now, has many contributions from the Northern immigrants too.

3. Economic differences! this one is huge. It affects how one approach their grubs of the day. Prosperity seemed to like Saigon more.

4. I forgot...

[eastingfeasting]

Pieman likes to brew trouble, first it was the vietkieu Pho and now this.
a funny comment made by one of my vietkieu friend said that he missed American food while in Saigon o_0!! he even said some vietkieu food in US taste better than Saigon.

I guess this is what happen when you lived in Rome and eat like romans.

[m@t]

no two ways about it, Saigon food is better.

One of my southern staff (more specifically, Nha Trang raised, but lived in SGN 15 yrs) insists that in the north she will only eat western food because the Vietnamese is so bad up there.

On a business trip north at the start of the year, one of my staff in the Hanoi office attempted to rectify this by taking us around to his favorite little Hanoian hideyholes - and really, nothing that compares to the food in the south.

Really bland.

One glaring exception...those sinh to condensed milk fruit cocktail things that are served with a bowl of ice on the side. There is that little alley in the Old Quarter, forgotten the name, but just a couple of blocks north of Hoan Kiem lake. Those are great, and nothing in Saigon compares.

those are good, and nothing

[Secretflower]

Here here! The food gets better as you go down South, and better again as you cross the ocean - the best Vietnamese fare in the world is to be had in Sydney, as recently confirmed by my brother in-law visiting from TPHCM.

[Down and Out in Sài Gòn]

Well, by what you are saying, Secretflower, you'd get better food in Melbourne. Not that I'd disagree. There was a great Vietnamese-Chinese restaurant in Footscray. Lovely.

[CaptainObvious]

You guys have to be kidding yourselves! I live in Melbourne and while I regularly eat out at Vietnamese restaurants they're nothing compare to the food in VN. It's like saying you can get the best aussie meat pie in VN. Actually, that's a bad example since all meat pies kind of taste the same and knowning the Vietnamese culinary skill I'm sure they can whip up a very mean meat pie :P

Anyway, you get the drift! Best Vietnamease food is in Vietnam! Duh!!!

[Simple Simon]

Missed my opportunity to change the pieman's attitude recently. Oh well, next time!

[Mr. No Star Where]

I generally agree that the best Vietnamese food is in VN but the pho at Pho 2000 in Falls Church, Virginia and the Banh Mi Thit Nuong in Oakland's Chinatown are fantastic.

[pieman]

Indeed a valiant effor... errr Simple Simon (??), but one doomed to failure from the off, I fear.

[Eric Minh]

To me, the reason why Saigon food is better than Hanoi food is simple: more sugar in Saigon. In EVERYTHING. And I loves me some sugar.

(I've lived four years in Saigon, only 6 weeks in Hanoi. Maybe I'll change my mind.)